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tv   Piers Morgan Live  CNN  June 11, 2013 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT

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this is piers morgan live. welcome viewers of the united states and worldwide and turkey. this is the scene live from istanbul. clashes going on throughout the night. explosive tear gas, forced to report wearing gas masks. >> reporter: trying to hurl the rocks back, advancing on the street below but anger, really, really flairing right now. >> live in istanbul and here in new york plus sex, drugs and the state department, the coverup to the top. all of it while hilary clinton was secretary of state. also breaking the news, behind the headlines, the nsa leaker's pole dancer girlfriend and where is he?
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and the $27,000-gun. in the chair robert zimmerman, my prime time exclusive of the brother of the man that shot trayvon martin. clashes between protesters and police tonight and spreading to the capital city, we continue to follow events with concern and that is freedom of expression and assembling to peaceful protests. we're concerned by any attempt to punish individuals for exercising their right to free speech and intent by any party to provoke violence. arwa damon and nick paton walsh live. arwa damon, let me start with you. dramatic footage in the last couple hours of you coming under attack and protesters from the tear gas from police. describe what was going on there.
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>> reporter: well, we were down in gezi park and remember, the government said it would not enter the park itself and while we did not see the riot police going in and most certainly came under incredibly intense fire with the tear gas water cannons at one point, too, it's fairly densely populated so when that happens there is complete chaos. some people fairly used to this, trying to calm others down. there are people running around. they will pour this white lick kid, it's actually mixed with water into each other's eyes to ease the sting but this went on four hours. people were incredibly angry, frustrated and saying that the government was effectively lying to them because even though they didn't physically enter the park, they most certainly were firing tear gas directly into it. we ended up having to run from one side of the park, came under too much tear gas to another. same thing happened there. eventually ended uptaking cover
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inside a hotel for a short period. >> and we've got some footage, i think, of you being directly assaulted with this tear gas. let's watch a bit of this. >> reporter: right now in the very front of the park, you can see people trying to help us out because of the tear gas. the entire front part of the park right now has been cleared out because of the intensity of what was just fired in and this, again, is not what people here were expecting of their government promised them that they would be allowed to stay in this position. >> very alarming for everyone involved in that situation. nick paton walsh, you're into your 20th hour i think of reporting this and i've been watching almost all of it. on the level of violence on both sides here, tell me for viewers tuning in who were wondering what is really going on here because it began as an
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environmental protest of a small park not far from where you are now and evolve into a much bigger deal. tell me why that is. >> certainly this began trying to reserve this green in the very heart of istanbul, that and met with a pretty hard police response to that protest and what we've seen over the past 12 days is a response to people, the police tactics, the heavy hand they are using to come into the streets and this cause this protest to mull tip play and people to join them. what they see is the ed war administration, the creeping conserve 'tis m they have serve -- would like to see more prevalence of society. some feel are being imposed upon them. so in the crowds we've seen across the country secular,
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middle class people expressing their anger, some demanding resignation of apology for excessive police force. we saw over the past week or so an ebbing of this police violence and where i was, a little bit more of that here as well but there were signs from the prime minister he wouldn't tolerate as what he referred to as a legal protest for much longer. so today, early morning at about 8:00 we saw the police moving in slowly into this central area here and then the clashes began. protesters are small, hard core here prepareed to meet with rocks, fire bomb cocktails and a firework launcher i saw one person fire that he made. the police relatively sober in their response beginning see the heavy hand we seen earlier in the week. more stun grenades by the place and as we saw people gathering
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in a peaceful protest as working hours ended here in the thousands, something set that off. arwa seems to have seen some small altercation, that caused a massive amount of tear gas. people running, scattering for their safety and now we're again into the cycle of attack, fireworks at police, water cannon, tear gas fire back and move around gezi park itself, police trying to retake control and push protesters away. that's pretty successful to the far side and the near side of where i am we still have this popular protest down along the road that heads down to the left of gezi park. police have work cut out but the force they have shown with debris and barricades to one side. >> arwa, we saw looked like some member of the public there spraying a liquid into your eyes when you had been tear gassed. what was that and is that what
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people are doing to protect themselves? >> reporter: yeah, that very much is what people are doing. it's basically an anti-acid mixed with water to take the sting out. you also have to remember that these aren't people experience in protesting and dealing with these kinds of situations. a lot of people that come out, especially after working hours, as nick was just saying, they are engine nears, they are bankers, it professionals. they come out after working hours to show solidarity because they feel like they have been pushed to the break. many coming up and telling us before this began, they could consider themselves to be apolitical. sure, they might go out and vote during the elections but they have never taken this stance before but feel like the government has pushed the boundaries so far that now they have to just -- they have effectively been learning as that go along how to deal with tear gas.
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they set up a make-shift medical center inside to deal with wounded and casualties and have their own system to handle these different challenges they have never faced before, but of course, are putting up with on a regular basis. >> arwa, nick, thank you very much for the incredible reporting done all day and pretty dangerous still. stay safe. i'm sure we'll be back to you as the evening continues to unfold and morning begins to break there in turkey. first of all, let's listen to what prime minister erdogan had to say about this. >> translator: heavy damage being done to the turkish economy. i urge the young people to put an end to this protest and i call on those who insist on continuing this is over. we won't put up with this any longer.
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>> this reminds me of two and a half years ago, egypt, is it similar or different than what we're seeing in istanbul? >> it looks similar, but it's actually more -- they are closer to another set of seen scenes that you might remember. 1968 in the united states because what you're seeing here is a democratically elected government, one that's been elected three times with ever increasing majorities as this democratic mandate. it has the mandate to do what it wants to do but it's a poll rised country and the minority that didn't vote for it are very frustrated and there is a social divider. they want to be scene as people from the country, religious, devote, conservetive. the people protesting are urban, middle class, secular. so you have a culture clash but also perhaps the oldest democratic question is what do
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you do with a minority? fine, you won 51% voters for you. how do you treat the 49% who didn't? and what has gathered this opposition together is the feeling that erdogan is just too aauthority in the way he handles it. you can see in both sides of the story. remember in 1968 in chicago mayor daily said you got to allow me to conduct business and the people protesting had a very different view. >> this is your hometown. you know istanbul better than anybody. what triggered this because on the face turkey is a much more prosperous country yemen, less reason for people to do this kind of protesting. are you surprised it is happening? what do you think has triggered it? >> i'm absolutely surprised.
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i never thought we would see these scenes in istanbul. these are university educated, professionals, middle class, many young turks. this is the largest civil disobedience. many benefitted from the economic stability of erdogan -- >> he's seen -- until now he's been seen a force predominantly good in turkey -- >> it depends what you talk to. also, before this exploded i was hearing from turks i think i got to leave this country. i can't live here anymore. they are banning -- they are strictly prohibiting alcohol sales. they are moving ahead with the development programs without bothering to talk to local business owners in the city. there were a raft of complaints that people had and -- and that left little room for descent and
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the tear gas is not a new thing for istanbul. people that live in this neighborhood had tear gas every month. it was happening more and more frequently, and this park protest was the straw that broke the camel's back. what is incredible is the prime ministers rhetoric, these people that didn't care about the elections by insulting them and using terrorist in the same sentence. it scares these people. it makes them angry. >> right, freedom. this prompts the question given what has happened to the dictators why would erdogan want to put himself in that category and behaving in what appears to be the dictator manner. >> i think he sees himself as very different. remember, he is the most popular political leaders in turkey in two generations. i wonder what you have in place is the kind of democratic
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disease, which is what i call the ten-year itch. after ten years in power every democratic leader becomes arrogant and believes they speak for the country -- >> margaret thatcher -- >> yeah. >> the problem is he's preparing the way he's trying to change the constitution to change the presidency which is symbolic to a powerful position with himself as the president. >> are we see the turkish putip changing? >> the way the media is treated in turkey and the fact they are largely terrified of chris size l this prime minister and showing things that will make him angry and the measures that have been taken against the big media owners in the country, slapping them with half billion-dollar tax fines has a way of changing the editorial tone. >> final question, in terms of america's position, this is clearly a key ally.
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they are sincere saying look, you got to stop doing this to these protesters. this is not what a democratic society does. what will happen in the next few days and weeks do you think? >> i think it all depends. this is one man's dilemmas. erdogan is so powerful he doesn't even need to listen to president obama. he doesn't even need to listen to the state department. the question is does he want to leave a historical legacy for himself as the modernizer. >> it seems so innecessary, this. >> the question is can he rein himself in? it appears that, you know, the
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former director of national intelligence and ambassador to iraq. what do you make of what is going on here? how serious is it? the white house released a strong statement. they could be very concerned. are they right to be concerned? >> i think so and i think that the behavior of the prime minister has become increasing authority as was said. here is this huge country, 70, 80 million people. istanbul, 20, 30 million people, this is having first of all having serious consequences on the economy of the country, which is being effected with foreign business interest, tourism and so forth and it also -- you wonder what it is for the political future and i wonder if there isn't a subtext
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here about erdogan, it was mentioned he hopes perhaps to become president under a modified constitution and could in someway this -- could there be forces joining in here whose aim it is to prevent him from achieving his ambition of becoming the next president of the country. >> let's move on to edward snowden, the supposed whistle blower. you made an interesting clarification today about what it takes to be a whistle blower. you said to be a whistle blower there would have to be a pattern of complaints and to me this is out right violation of confidence and a violation of his agreement. strong words there. what is going to happen now? this guy is on the run. there was a huge manhunt for him. he was last seen in hong kong. what should happen? how tough should the penalties
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be for him? >> well, what should happen, i guess, first of all, we have to get him back under our jurisdiction and it's not clear to me how that will happen because he's half way around the world. we thought he was in hong kong and now we don't even know that for absolutely certain. so that's step one is to get him back under united states jurisdiction. then i think the authorities will have to look at what kind of charges to press, but it seems to me on the face of it, at least, it would appear he commented some kind of criminal act by showing classified information in a completely unauthorized fashion. >> finally and briefly if you don't mind, where do you see the line being drawn between an individual's right to privacy in america with so much data available through computers and social networking and cell phones and so on and a
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government, a state, a country's right to defeat and attack and take on terrorism through the kind of activities the nsa does? >> well, i think we got to be absolutely clear that whenever the nsa wants to look into the content of communications of americans, they've got to have a warrant. they have to have judicial permit to do that. that's different from this so-called met to data like the information on the outside of an envelope from home to whom and on what date. that is not considered -- to collect that kind of information is not considered an invasion of one's privacy. nonetheless, i think given the state of technology today, i think we always have to double check ourselves every now and then. we have ought to have this debate about whether, what the nsa is doing now continues to be appropriate. it's been judged to be appropriate in the past. it's completely legal, and there
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are judges who are ruling on the legality of many of the steps that are taken, but i think given the uproar that's occurred, clearly, this is something that congress might take another look at or at least debate. >> ambassador, thank you very much for joining me. >> thank you. shocking allegations of the state department, prostitute, drug ring, who broke the sen stational story, john miller. ♪ bonjour
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♪ je t'adore ♪ c'est aujourd'hui
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♪ ♪ et toujours ♪ me amour ♪ how about me? [ male announcer ] here's to a life less routine. ♪ and it's un, deux, trois, quatre ♪ ♪ give me some more of that [ male announcer ] the more connected, athletic, seductive lexus rx. ♪ je t'adore, je t'adore, je t'adore ♪ ♪ ♪ s'il vous plait [ male announcer ] this is the pursuit of perfection. shocking allegations of an american ambassador, a state department official accused of sex, evidence, a drug ring on the u.s. embassy, part of the latest scandal rocking the state department amid allegations of massive coverups, dates to hillary clinton's time and what that this could mean for her presidential ambitions. the man that broke the story, john, welcome to. i'm holding two pieces of paper here, two collections of pieces
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of paper. one is a draft. one is actually what got released, two very different documents and that seems to be at the center of the scandal you've unearthed. tell me about this. >> this was an inspection, not even an investigation. basically when the inspectors from the inspector general come to do an assessment given how the division is operating and being managed, they look at the diplomatic security service. these are the people who are the protect tomorrows of the secretary of state, they guard foreign u.s. ambassadors in foreign countries, but they also do criminal investigations from passport fraud to if a state department person is accused of wrongdoing or a crime they will investigate that, too. this is at the heart here. there were eight investigations mentioned in a memorandum that said when we interviewed the dss agents they said they were in the middle of the investigations and cut off. so that is what spurred the deeper dive into was there interference from higher ups?
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were cases influenced? were things that might turn into scandals just cut off midway? >> in terms of the reaction from various bodies, does the state department hold all employees to the highest standards, take allegations of misconduct seriously, investigate thoroughly, all cases were thoroughly investigates and under investigation and the department continues to take action. a little woolly in the wording, guarding itself. the ambassador in question who was directly accused issued a statement saying he's saddened and angered by the allegations that appeared in the press and to watch the four years i served in the country we'll not name smear in a beautiful park you walk to get at many locations, at no point have i engaged in improper activity and hillary clinton said we learned of through this through the media and don't know anything beyond what's been reported. so blanket denials. where do you think this will go? it's blown up big. people are very concerned about
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it. >> what is happening now is the inspector general has -- part of rub here, they said these were inspectors. they are not criminal investigators. they basically look at the good order and efficiency of whatever division they are examining. >> these are serious allegations. >> yeah, they are, and here is the real rub, the person who basically was the author of the memo that listed it was an inspector for the inspector general but for 26 years before that she was a reporter for the diplomatic service. >> she knew what she was dealing with. >> she had the training the people looking at it lacked. the ig, inspector general brought in three criminal investigators from the outside, hired them in and said you review the eight cases that are in here and here is a couple more that came in later.
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you do a comprehensive review, speak to the investigators and report to us where these cases derailed were they interfered with. that's what they are talking about. >> where does it leave hillary clinton. she just launched herself on twitter and had tbd suggesting there may be a big move, possibly a presidential run and so on. how damaging could this be to her? >> it's cannon for political shows and talk radio. really, when you're the secretary of state, you're focused on international relations with key partners and adversaries, you probably don't get intoed weeds. here is an example. in that report it said four members in hillary clinton's security detail who were allegedly engaged with prostitutes in trips to colombia and russia and this was
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before the secret service scandal -- >> right. >> they were given one-day suspensions and removed from the detail. now the secret service scandal breaks, and what we're told is when hillary clinton went to her people and said do we have an issue like that? she was told no. so, i think part of the problem is i think politically some people would like to use this against hillary clinton. from looking at it from a distance, it seems the security app rat 'tis fly below the screen. >> you turned to the leak scandal. you know this world better than many people. what is your view of the whistle blower, the leaker, the criminal as many people are calling him edward snowden? is there nothing he's done except to warn the public interest? >> i think there's a couple of answers to that. one is, as the president has now
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pointed out there probably is the need for a wider debate on where we are in terms of what is our actual expectation of privacy today. our credit card companies, amazon.com can tell you what you bought the next time and what you should buy the next time. where are we vis-a-vis the government and records versus -- so what's our expectation and understanding? so that's the broader question. i think the narrower question is ed snowden did what i do. he stuck his right hand in the air and swore an oath and signed a paper under the penalty of perjury and prosecution said as long as he was being paid to work in the u.s. government even as a contractor he would uphold that oath and protect those secrets. he could have gone to an inspector general, he could have gone to congress and he choose to go to the media which is a trade and true path way for exposing scandal and then he's
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made himself public, which is interesting. so i think it's too early to say on him, although, when you look at him, he was, you know, three months in the army, then he was out on an injury, then he was a short time at the cia, according to him, and a very short time at booz allen. he doesn't seem to have excelled or stayed in one place for long. so he may just be a guy who didn't amount to as much as he wanted to in life and decided this was a different way to get recognized. it's the kind of thing you almost want a profiler to look at and say what do you see with this guy? >> yeah, fascinating story. we're breaking the news and going behind the headlines coming up next. ♪
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the nsa leaker, is he a hero or a trader? we'll get on the headlines with kevin maddon and mark and robin meade, host of hln's morning express. welcome to you-all. >> good to be here. >> thank you. >> kevin, welcome to you. >> thank you so much. great to be with you. >> we'll start with you because you're the new boy. hero or villain? >> i certainly don't think he's a hero.
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i think those are two emotionally charged words, but i certainly don't think he's a hero. i think what he is and he's a confessed law-breaker. he took an oath to uphold the confidential yalty of the position that he was afforded in working with the nsa and he knew that the ramifications of disclosing classified information and yet he did it. i think it's clear he's a lawbreaker. i think the idea whether or not he's a trader goes to the intend of whether or not he was trying to harm the country, but those who work very closely with classified information and those who do work with law enforcement and do work in intelligence will tell you he has done a great damage to our -- >> let's go to mark. you're crying hero -- >> absolutely. >> wow. >> first, he's not a trader because by his own audition -- i don't think anyone thinks he was treying to destroy the country. he was trying to make america better -- >> has he made america better? by revealing so much information of this nature, which we now
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know was all completely legal regardless of your view whether it should be happening, it was legal and they were doing sneakily illegally. >> right. >> doing that he's clearly exposed america to enemies in a way they prefer not to be exposed. >> i worry to some extent the state department and agencies are disclosing that to persuade people not to do it in the future and get punishment against this man. the american public has awareness we're entering a surveillance state that we probably didn't know and didn't want. as far as him being a hero, yeah, he's a hero. many heroes break laws. he knew the professional risks and personal risks -- >> he left his beautiful girl friend behind. extraordinary -- >> that's a sacrifice. >> i was just looking on twitter and a lot of viewers said he gave that up, gave up a pole dancer.
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is that really what she is? >> let me ask you, as an american citizen, how far are you prepared to have your privacy invaded in terms of data about you and your life? as john miller was saying, almost without realizing it we surrenderer loads of information. i'm on amazon, google -- >> credit cards. >> they know where i live. they know my name. they know my birthday. they know all sorts of stuff. why are we getting so exercised about this? >> it's almost like someone asked me the other day, how much transparency should there be in marriage? i said 100%. if there is not 100%, i got something to hide. so i feel comfortable because i'm not involved in activities that i think the government would even be excited about, however, on the flip side, i just went through a compliance audit with the irs. while i didn't have anything to hide, it was very uncomfortable, right? because you're revealing so much
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information. >> see, you hit the nail on the head. let me come to you kevin madden on this, the irs. if i was an american citizen, which i'm not, i'm a resident, not a citizen. if i was i would be like i'm supposed to trust the government with this information but in the last month we have the irs scandal people of lowing rankings abused that information and data to target enemies. what is to stop people with this kind of information doing exactly the same thing? >> that is the big tradeoff. one of the big problems for this debate is that what you're seeing is the public's -- an erosion of the public's trust in government. i think the difference is on the two profiles of the folks involved. with the irs there has been a profile that this is a government agency that is inefficient, that is taking too much power from me, it's taking my money from me so there is not a great deal of fifth in it. with the intelligence services and military there is an understanding or perception what
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they are doing with the information is keeping you safe -- >> really? do you feel that martin hill? >> there has never been a good faith expectation from the american government. we had fbi and cia spying on people in the 1960s and '70 and jewish people investigated, we had radicalists -- >> it's no means perfect. you're right, it's by no means perfect -- >> it's broken. >> they don't have 100% rating amongst the public but we seen poll of poll come out in the context of a very heated and emotional debate in the country where people have said in poll after poll they are willing to give up some freedom for -- for security. >> that doesn't make it right -- >> did we -- >> did we ever answer the question of why the guy didn't go through the checks and balances? was he just inpatient?
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>> as john miller suggested, he could be a bit of a loser, not of a big achiever that didn't go through checks and balances that and thought he would go out as a big hero. >> that's a good question. >> let's take a break -- >> i'm sorry. >> let's take a break there. when we come back, i want to know why any american citizen should be buying a gun for $27,000, which can shoot from ten football fields away. i would love to hear my panel give me one good reason why that's not complete insanity and i'll talk to robin about her singing. in fact, i'm going to get her to sing. >> in fact, i hope that's not complete insanity. i do a lot of research on angie's list before i do any projects on my own. at angie's list, you'll find reviews written by people just like you. i love my contractor, and i am so thankful to angie's list for bringing us together. angie's list -- reviews you can trust.
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breaking news, kevin maddon, so look, very quickly, give me one good reason why any american civilian needs a gun for $27,000 that can fire ten football fields away. >> for hunting. >> what can you hunt that far away? >> a -- >> are there elephants in texas i'm not aware of? >> if civilians can have that, i would be happy to know the military has it. >> you can probably shoot the wings off a fly with that.
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look, you can't fight technology. folks who are gun enthusiasmests want the best. something of that price with advanced technology, people want it. >> you think that's okay, do you? >> the right to bear arms means you can have that. move on, talking of madness, i like to story, chad johnson. >> i do, too. >> he gave his attorney a backside pat in court after being encourageed to thank him in court and it got him a 30-day jail sentence. watch what happened. >> do you have any questions? this isn't a joke. >> i didn't do it as a joke, ma'am. >> everybody in the courtroom was laughing. i'm not acre accepting that. >> explain to me how he doesn't get any jail time for head butting his wife but he does get 30 days in jail for patting the
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backside of his attorney? >> i really don't think he meant it as a joke. i don't mean -- >> no. >> i mean, when you say to an athlete you should probably thank -- >> that's how they do it. >> they slap butts, right? he wasn't smacking, it seems like the reaction from the courtroom angered the judge because she lost control then. i don't think it's fair. i really don't. >> this is absolutely ridiculous. i'm all for him getting 30 days for domestic violence to send a message to the world that's wrong but that back-side pat was inappropriate but not jail worthy. >> she was about to let him out on probation, correct? about domestic violence? >> it's okay to beat your wife -- >> kevin maddon, it was clearly a laughable situation in many ways but the seriousness of what he was accused of doing and it was a very serious thing. why is he being jailed for that when he was nl being jailed for head betting his wife. >> full disclosure, i'm a
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cincinnati bangels fan, so i used to be a fan. he missed meetings with his probation officer on the previous charge. when you go into a court or plea agreement like that you have to have -- you have to throw yourself at the mercy of the court. you have to have as right an attitude as you can with that judge to get out of there and he didn't. she had the ability to put him in jail and she did. >> kevin, mark, thank you for now. i want to turn directly to you robin meade because you have a new album out. >> i'm nervous to talk about it. >> you're a star, country singer. there is no end to your talent. no beginning to mine. >> i'm a little nervous to talk about it because you're a past judge of america's got talent. >> exactly right. >> i don't want you to go that's part of america does or doesn't. >> are you brave enough to give me a few little bars now? >> sure. >> give me a blast. >> full discloser a singer
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should never do this because i've been up since 2:30 a.m. i'm suddenly a -- >> give me something. >> ♪ i will be here for you year after year for you, i will be here for you ♪ >> you know, i just wanted you to say those words. [ laughter ] >> i love it. no professional singers i've had on here before would sing at this time of night after a whole day. do you love the singing? obviously you're a terrific broadcaster. >> thanks. >> i've seen you performing live on youtube and stuff and you clearly get a buzz out of it. >> it is. this is the behind the scenes of the making of album and you can see the way the producer really has a job on her hands because he has to keep it on time, under budget and keep me in order, but it is my drug. i think more than singing, it's the song writing. i can't get enough of that. >> you wrote seven of the 12 songs on the album.
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>> seven of the 12 and the fun behind the scenes in nashville if you're the junior writer you have to come with the concepts to the song writing session. >> it's a great album. it's called count on me available right now. you can check out robin meade hosting the awards. you're having a massive party in new york over this, which i tragically can't go to. have a little fun and best of luck on the album. >> thank you and thanks for having me. >> we'll be right back after this short break.
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aarrggh! george zimmerman says he killed trayvon martin in self-defense. tonight, his brother robert zimmerman is talking and joins me now in the chair. welcome back to you, robert. very tense time for your family. both families involved in this case. jury selection is going on right now. how important is that going to be do you think in determining the outcome? >> many attorneys will tell you that a case rests on jury selection. as family members, we have
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florida includes lesser included offenses in the charge. >> in terms of george himself, he's put on a lot of weight, raising some people to be concerned about his physical and perhaps mental condition. how is he and why has he put on so much weight? >> i think george put on the weight because of the stress. he's been completely railroaded. this is not a case about race. he was, as you called him a year ago, the most hated man in america. everything that he held dear and sacred, the criminal justice system, the truth, the police,
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for example, that they would do the right thing was tossed out the window and he was charged with murder. that's the way he's responding to the stress. >> obviously, if george had not had a gun on him that night, the distinct likelihood is that trayvon martin would still be alive. does he regret now carrying a gun around now? >> i can't talk about that. >> do you regret snit >> absolutely not. if we don't have a gun, our attacker would still be alive. maybe george would not. this is an example of a straightforward self-defense case. >> do you think that trayvon martin was going to beat your brother to death? >> i don't have any idea. >> he had a packet of skittles in his bare hands. is that what you think would have happened in that case? >> i think there's been evidence that's come forward that shows mr. martin enjoyed fighting. >> but not beating people to death. >> let me finish what is
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evidence that he enjoyed. he enjoyed beating people until he saw enough blood, going back to attack people until he saw enough blood. he was very disappointed he had lost fights because someone had sat on top of him. he had an interest in guns, marijuana plants, drugs. >> how much is that relevant that on that night, a 17-year-old boy with no gun meets your brother, there's an altercation. if it hadn't been for the gun, they would probably have walked away. >> i think it's relevant to your question, because you said is it likely that is what would have happened? i don't know that would have happened. i think one had a proven propensity for violence and a history of participating in that kind of mma fighting and the other did not. so i think it's relevant to your question, and also to your point about guns in this country, piers. if your children or your high schoolers want to procure guns
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for themselves, legally or illegally at 17 years old and asking people to secure guns for them, we have a problem in this country with guns. it can't be after a newtown or something like that -- >> personally, i wouldn't let anyone under 25 have a gun in america. at least have an age limit. robert, a testing time for you and the family. appreciate you coming on tonight. >> thanks, piers. >> we'll be right back. with free package pickup ] from the united states postal service a small design firm can ship like a big business. just go online to pay, print and have your packages picked up for free. we'll do the rest. ♪
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